Talk:Daiteikoku:Nations

Romanization of ドクツ
Any suggestions for ドクツ, anyone? I know it's a wordplay on Deutsche (ドイツ), but I don't know how to write this. I've seen ドクツ written as Dekutsch around this Wiki, but I don't know. Something about it rubs me wrong. Aurabolt213 16:13, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well ドイツ means Deutsch (in german) probably coming from Duits how our Neighbours the Netherlands like to call it. I think the change from イ to ク shall be represented by the change of u to ku. I still prefer Dokutsu though. PeterHarry 17:43, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * So Dekutsche is our best effort at naming. I won't touch anything for now, so further comments from others are welcome; we should stick with one everyone can agree on. And then work at keeping the name consistent here and there. Aurabolt213 17:51, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * One approach to tackle ドクツ would be to derive something out of "Deutsch". George W Bush might not know what that word means, and technically it's not an English word, but it is a decent place to draw some arbitrary line. Using this approach, we can try to fill in the mapping
 * ドイツ (Doitsu) -> ドクツ (Dokutsu)
 * Deutsch -> ?
 * Now, we need to find a German pronunciation guide and figure out how we can fiddle up something that changes the De"doi" sound of the "Deu" part to a "dok" sound.
 * Alternative two ("localization"): just randomly screw with the word "Germany" and turn it into "Gerkany" or something. This is the option that even Bush can hopefully figure out. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 06:19, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * I read that as Jerk-any, haha. Aurabolt213 02:19, June 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * The German "eu" is pronounced as . The [ɔ] is the sound of an o in front of an "harten Konsonanten" (sry don't know how express it in English). The [i] is replaced by an [ku].So my proposal would be Doku(h)tsch. Without the h the u sound would be short [ʊ] with it we would have [u]. To my ears both sounds bizarre. (i'm German btw.) PeterHarry 09:34, June 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ooo nice! BTW can your proposal be further modified to contain the letter "z" somewhere after the letter "k" and still retain make phonetic sense? -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 04:35, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Afaik no sry PeterHarry 07:00, June 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hmm, how does "Blitz" sound in German? I was hoping something like "Doku(h)tz" (if that is even a valid spelling of a made-up German word) might be possible. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 02:01, June 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Blitz is the following [blɪʦ], if you want to use "tz" as an ending you would have to write it without the "h" because "tz" make the "u" short (accustically). So "Dokutz" would be read [dɔkʊʦ]. PeterHarry 09:40, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Romanization of エイリス
Past notes about the naming issue is found on this talk page. I can say one thing with confidence though. It's not the katakana for Alice. Alicesoft uses アリス if I'm correct. I'm towards believing it's another wordplay as with ドクツ. Japan sometimes writes English as イギリス. We got some matching kana there. Aurabolt213 17:09, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * If you'll watch the Daiteikoku intro movie, at some point for a split second each country's name is shown in abbreviated English. エイリス is abbreviated "ERS". So I say 99% chance it's simply "Eris". In the same breath, Nihon's abbreviation IS shown as "JPN". Dekutsch is "DKZ". Dekutz/Dokutz/Dekitz (possibly pun on "blitz" as in "blitzkrieg")? Gahahahahahahahaha!! 06:44, June 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Very good observation. Totally forgot about those! -Afker All hail AliceSoft!`
 * I'm fine with Eris. It's an actual name and all. Wish we had a naming--made more apparent it's a pun on "English" though. Like with O'france and Italin. Aurabolt213 08:19, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Could be "Erish" instead. I kind of think of it as "English" + "Irish". Actually either Eris or Erish should kataganize into エリス instead. I think "Eirish", where you force the "ei" to pronounce like in "eight", is phonetically closer to エイリス. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 10:54, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * (<= How many more colons will I have to put after a few more responses!?) Aside from Gamerica (ROG = Republic of Gamerica), each country's last character tends to be the last character of the name itself so I'm inclined to think it's Eiris rather than Eirish, unless this is a silly mistake on AliceSoft's part simply due to lack of familiarity with the English language (even great companies like Eushully suck at English and use less coherent machine translations in many places). And even "Eris" when pronounced in a heavily accented manner, does sound like "Eeihriss" so perhaps that's why they included the イ? Keep in mind the accent as this is Britain we're talking about XD Gahahahahahahahaha!! 19:15, June 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't forget we're not looking for the official names here. We're trying to create a name explanatory to English speakers. Read the fourth response in "Romanization of 中帝国." Also, "Eirish" does indeed sound like a portmanteau of English and Irish. The British have some rough history with the Irish, but in terms of location, they are technically in the same vicinity. Aurabolt213 02:16, June 23, 2011 (UTC)

While names explanatory to English speakers against provided Japanese names (by translation and common sense) is the right thing to do when we have no idea how AliceSoft would like to put it in English, if an English name is officially provided or hinted at, sticking to the "original given English" is better IMO. Otherwise might we as well start calling "ランス" as "Lance" in these wikis (IIRC Rance is indeed a joke on the word "Lance", referring to the penis, which even he calls his "hyper weapons"). Now that I think about it, you're probably right about the English+Irish thing though. And no comment on China coz there is no hint about it even in the intro Gahahahahahahahaha!! 09:04, June 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Good point, but AliceSoft's English isn't stellar as you know. We have to make exceptions when names don't make sense in AliceSoft's spelling. Rance (American) is fine since it's an actual name distinct from Lance (European). Even though they probably did mean it to be Lance (which has phallic connotations whereas the American name doesn't), AliceSoft's botched spelling isn't awkward by any means. Hmm, I can't come up with an opposite example at the moment. Okay, as a poor example, we wouldn't call Matilda as Matirda just because it's the official spelling. There's no name, such as the latter, at all. Aurabolt213 15:45, June 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Disagreements -
 * "each country's last character tends to be the last character of the name itself" <- Disagree. This is only established for Japan (JPN) and Soviet (SVT), where there are identical real-world correspondents. DKZ could easily have a silent "e" at the end for all we know. It is more reasonable to assume the three-letter abbreviations merely reflects dominant phonetic letters/words in the name. Or if you also take into account the three-letter codes of location names earlier in the intro, then there seem to be no strong consistency at all. If I were to come up with a three letter code to represent "Irish", I would either pick "Iri" (first three letters) or "Irs" (dominant phonetic); I would never pick something like "Irh" or "Ish".
 * "as a poor example, we wouldn't call Matilda as Matirda just because it's the official spelling" <- Disagree. If official canonical spelling exists then we should use it (and document any non-canonical variations in spelling that is notable/prevalent).
 * "[Eris is] an actual name and all" <- エイリス is a made-up word, preference for a "real English word" mapping is IMO misdirected.
 * -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 04:32, June 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * Uh, never minding the details, I'm not advocating the third point any more. I don't know why you brought up something already past. I'll agree to disagree on the second point though. Just for reference, I'm for using whatever's the latest suggestion. Currently, it's Eirish. Aurabolt213 04:41, June 24, 2011 (UTC)

Romanization of 中帝国
I notice someone has been changing Chinese Empire to Chun Empire. Is there a need for that? China in the modern world isn't actually called China in Japanese or its native tougue either. By that logic of romanization, 日本 should Nippon instead of Japan.UnknownOrigin 08:06, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * I vote there's no need for it. 76.169.38.22 08:09, June 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm personally quite divided on the issue, but slightly tending towards favoring Nippon over Japan. It might be something worth a deeper discussion involving more people who care. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 08:19, June 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Since no one else is replying, i will start the discussion here. Using Japan/Nippon wasn't a good example. Let's take say... 人類統合組織ソビエト. Would it better to call it Soviet or Sobieto? Perhaps you could argue that all katagana should be translated to english but what about the United Human Organization part? Should it be Jinrui-tōgō-soshiki instead? On the other hand, Chun means middle, so should Chinese Empire be translated to Middle Empire (I know some places that do this). The way I see it, we should stick with English translation (while perserving the author's intention) when possible as this is a wiki for english readers and should assume to have limited knowledge of Japanese (especially kanji). By translatin to Chinese empire, people know that the country is meant to reference China with the same level of clearness as it had in Japanese. UnknownOrigin 22:39, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think the person changing everything to "Chun" will even look at this. And no, I'm not new in this talk. 76.169.38.22 was me. Aurabolt213 22:45, June 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Most likely not. But it makes me feel better undoing the changes of other people if others, especially frequents like Afker, agrees. UnknownOrigin 02:38, June 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll do the dirty deed then. It seems this game's heat has died, so I'm planning to clean up every page here; what we have at least. I already rewrote 1.5 pages, during which I reverted a few "Chun" back to "China." Let's see how long I can keep interested in this though. Aurabolt213 03:05, June 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Your reasoning are very sensible. Following that line of thought, I would like to explore ideas on how to better "translate" the エイリス帝国, or if people think the association with British is sufficiently clear to English language users who are not familiar with Japanese. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 08:57, June 21, 2011 (UTC)