Talk:Rance Quest:Playable Characters

Experiment Skill-Table
Any comments? By the way, some informations are pure bullshit created to showcase how this table may look in the future. This isn't perfect, but I somehow want a separate row for comments/remarks/descriptions. We don't want them crammed to a small cell when remarks start becoming whole paragraphs, right? Aurabolt213 17:30, July 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks okay... But adding 1 row of info then a merged row of description alternately... that might be a bit painstaking. And it, uh... looks less like a table because of this. Might be an even bigger hassle in case we need to add more field(s) to the description part (we'll have to repeat merging on all alternate rows). Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 03:46, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I suspected that. Wish there was a better way to list skills. Okay, whatever. Maybe I'll try again when feeling inspired. Aurabolt213 03:52, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why don’t create a new page for the data of the skills? Looking at the game mechanics seems that are a lot of skills shared by characters (like Weapon Attack 1, 2, etc.) which would mean that it needs to be added to a lot of characters ending with a long page.
 * Keep this page (PCs and skills) simple with a table for every character that only contains the skills name and the requirements to learn it, assuming every character have different requirements.
 * In the other page create a table for every type of skill (offensive, defensive, passive and others) with the name, damage, uses, etc. and also add a column with the characters that can learn it.
 * As for the description, there is no need to make it long. In a column could be added a basic description like basic melee attack, basic magic attack, etc.
 * I am assuming that the same skill for different characters has the same damage cap, default uses, etc. with the only difference would be the actual damage which is based in some equation which depend on character stats and equipment.
 * Sorry if there is a problem. New to editing wikis and English isn’t my native language.79.145.8.99 15:28, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, since in Rance 6 some buff skills, in spite of same names, had different magnitude of effects and different ways of using, I'm kind of worried if they will always have the same effect or not. But otherwise it's probably not a bad idea. The Sengoku Rance pages have skills and PC described that way it seems, so perhaps after the game comes out, we'll see and arrange them that way... Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 16:32, July 21, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above comment that we should have a new page called "Skill", cos there are a lot of shared skill (Most of it!!).
 * Piyapong Wongwaiwit Wii 20:31, August 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * Piyapong Wongwaiwit Wii 20:31, August 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Was thinking the same thing, the page looks a bit... unfriendly, especially because of long descriptions on cells with a very small width that ends up translating into very long heights. So far, I've noticed most skills remain the same across characters, so a separete section with skill descriptions would work a lot better and leave this one only to say what skills a character has access to. But that's just me, once the word on this 'ok', I will probably get started on that. XD
 * GrayFox2510 1.22, August 29, 2011

Unsorted
Not sure if we should already start adding skill names and purpose from the trial version (or even released screenshots, or even the hacked text file used for traslation which contains skill names and description) in a hurry. Even beta testing has barely begun, the skills might get changed, added, deleted from what the trial version has thus far. Gahahahahahahahaha!! 22:29, June 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yep, that's totally possible, but we can fix them when the real game is released. At least now we have a basic format so that wiki users can follow when they add/correct the skills. Inarashi 08:46, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

Some characters have surnames with funky romanizations. So let's leave them out for now; stick to first names. Named セスナ as Cessna, an actual name. And I spelled メガデス as Megadeth since it refers to the metal band. Nations are ordered by Rance's exploration. And characters are ordered alphabetically. Only list playable characters please. Skills should be added as in my example. 76.169.38.22 00:11, May 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Okay, I suppose we will list surnames. But can anyone guess what Megadeth and Prima's surnames are supposed to be? What would モロミー be? Is there a non-Japanese name sounding like that? And ホノノマン is just wacky. That's not even Japanese; my best guess is a name like Hunneman. God damn, I hate katakana namings. 76.169.38.22 05:03, May 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * What I usually try to do is try using those Katagana names and do searches on Google + Wikipedia, see if anything happens to turn up from names of other person/place/thing that matches or is close enough to use as a base. Doesn't always work, but some times I do learn about things I didn't know before in the process (such as the Irish & Slavic deity references used in AmbivalenZ). -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 07:43, June 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * I tried that. Not helping much with "Moromi". Not in the first 2-3 pages of results anyway... Gahahahahahahahaha!! 13:18, June 20, 2011 (UTC)

スパルタ
Sounds like a portmanteau of "spar" and "fighter" to me. 76.169.38.22 15:04, July 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * A -ter usually becomes a ター in katakana, so i guess it is something else in this case. Maybe its a shout-out to 300 and its really just "sparta" ?

Character Classes
I know the one who created this page preferred to sort characters country-wise. However now AliceSoft has officially listed the 8 playable character types. I'm wondering if now we should sort the characters class-wise instead of countrywise, that would seem more appropriate and convenient for finding info on a character in a RPG. If there's a reason not to do that, I can always add an extra entry in the nav template and create the corresponding classes page instead, but that'd look a bit redundant. Gahahahahahahahaha!! 17:19, July 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, go ahead. I prefer the other page the way it is though. Aurabolt213 20:12, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Representation of skills in tabular format
From what I see in the skill learning page on AliceSoft site, each character in this game will have some 2 dozen skills to learn. How about representing them in a table with fields like damage multiplier/addition, no. of uses, special effects and description, etc.? It'd help when putting that many skills per character eventually. Gahahahahahahahaha!! 19:37, July 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure. I originally wanted to use tables, but didn't in case people might think tables make the page too long. Also, you can probably merge the skill names into one column (to save space) by just putting the English and Japanese names together like I did here: http://alicesoft.wikia.com/wiki/Haruurare:Items Aurabolt213 19:53, July 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Had the same thing in mind, that's what I've been doing in the Eushully wikis too... I'll start tomorrow (with at least a basic format even if it's going to have a lot of empty fields due to lack of info) if you don't beat me to it and do it sooner. Gahahahahahahahaha!! 20:38, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Is the "remarks" section necessary? I would lump them together with "Other Effects," and make comments about a character in a paragraph under their name. Kind of like how each fighting class has a short description. Mmm, oh well. (Damage bonuses can be mentioned in "Other Effects" too, I think. I'm pretty sure most of those cells will be written as "none" even after the game's out.) And for the default layout, 660 pixels are ideal, just to know. Aurabolt213 17:22, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Remarks are for well, remarks about the skill, something important to comment/emphasise about while effects are for all in-game effects other than damage (or that's how I intended to write it). You're right about damage bonuses though, but instead of other effects I'm feeling like clubbing them with damage multiplier into a common "Damage multiplier/bonus" field as they both relate to damage. Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 18:19, July 16, 2011 (UTC)

TODO
We'll want to arrange the chars of each class in the order in which they join you. If joining order is not deterministic for some chars (i.e. your actions decide the order) then from weaker to stronger is good I think. Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 18:07, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

About this page setup...
Currently the page is done "per character" like Rance VI but I got a feeling we should rather be doing this more like Sengoku's skill page.

As far as I can see, characters get the "base" skills of their class and then some people may have extra skills outside of their class (e.g Frostvine gets Weakness Scan which is generally given to Mages, Crook gets some trap avoidance etc)

In other words, list out all the base skills of a class, then put in the character specific ones with remarks like Rance Attack (for Rance only) Sengoku style.

Though I'm not exactly volunteering myself, what does everyone think? TokiNoKimi 12:52, August 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * I generally agree with the idea, though I haven't actually paid attention to the data. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 18:50, August 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok, I agree and really think that skills and characters should be completely different pages. Aside from character-specific skills, many job classes have multiple "templates" that each character randomly maps to. If you re-initialize your game multiple times and check Rance's skill set (and the amount of points to learn), you'll see that Rance as a fighter has at least 3 different templates:
 * One template gives the "Capture Knowledge" skill, and the shortsword knowledge only cost 2 points
 * One template gives the "Identify" skill and the "Berserker" skill, and the shortsword knowledge costs 3 points
 * One template gives none of the above-mentioned skills, the shortsword knowledge costs 3 points, and supposedly the Spear Knowledge only costs 2 points (locked initially so slower to check).
 * From the Japanese discussions, it appears all classes (except civilian) has 3 templates: one with Identify, one with Capture, and one with neither. Civilian is the only class that doesn't have multiple templates (always come with both Identify and Capture skills). Some classes like Fighter has additional differences between templates, some classes don't have additional differences. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 11:58, August 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're right, learned this eventually -__-'. But still, perhaps no need to have seperate pages, let's have an initial table listing all moves of a given class, then add characters with mentioning only what skills they can learn.
 * EDIT: I edited the fighter section, a sample (incomplete) table with common skills and changed Rance (only) at this time to reflect the a possible format. Is this OK? (If not it can always be reverted.)
 * Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 20:42, August 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * I like it. Looks much better this way. I think the pre-req box is a bit short (especially if the plan was to add pre-req skill names in there), but if it's only for the level, then it works fine. On the other hand, you can merge all those boxes together and just list the skill names needed, but not the level necessary (such as being lv15 as a minimum) since that particular piece of information should be fairly obvious. But I don't know.
 * GrayFox2510 11.18, August 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Width & height of boxes will auto-resize as I put more text in there. I did intend to put in both level and skill in them though. Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 04:09, August 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm gonna experiment with an alternate page to see if things can be more streamlined while keeping informativeness in balance. Rance Quest:Skills/Sandbox. -Afker All hail AliceSoft! 04:47, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2 things on that.


 * 1: A skill just doesn't have learning prerequisites, it sometimes has upgrade requirements too.
 * 2: Are you going to put all skills from all classes in 1 table of each skill type (red, blue, yellow, white)? That's going to look even more messed up. Also, certain chars of a class have access to skills of other classes too (most prominent example is Crook, also Wichita in my experience, is a fighter but can use some magic), which is why I can't ask you to seperate and sort the moves into corresponding classes either. Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 16:38, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's better to sort by class in general, including repeated skills (in the case of those you mentioned). The only alternate solution I see is alphabetizing skills which is kind of a drag in Japanese (and since the point of the wiki is to help people who don't know Japanese), and using translated names would be worse even for the same reasons (most would still have to go through the whole thing trying to find one skill).


 * We could sort them in 'categories' so to speak. So you have the fighter section, and you put all the generic attack skills first (Attack 1, 2, etc), then all the sword skills, then all the hammer skills, etc., and we list spells at the bottom (fire first, ice next, etc., same with mages). It might not seem very effective at first, I guess, but generally, you have to train something in one category to learn something else from it-- such as upgrading the first two fire spells in order to get the higher ones, same with swords and all, it might make for easier searching for those with zero Japanese knowledge. Might being the keyword. GrayFox2510 20.35, August 31, 2011 (UTC)
 * Skills can be grouped into these types: class skill (ally guard, efficient movement, escape, etc), weapon skill (multi-shot, explosive knowledge, etc), stat increasement (almost all chars have them, except mages have magic, while fighters and rangers have shock), magic skill (one person only specializes in one magic), and unique skill (Bishamonten, sex technique, etc). This way of classification divides the skill inito those groups, then into further sub-groups. It should be easy to locate them. You can just state which character holds which group(s) of skills, and which unique skill(s) (if exist).RinUmiko 10:34, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * On a side note... What would be best for skills with multiple levels for stats? I have some in the Fighter section done in two ways for the time being. One of them has ★s to represent the upgrades in indiviual lines, and other just say stuff like "increases by 20/40/80/100". Altough I suppose the ★s look better, they certainly make a skill that would only take two lines, grow to like 6~7. Not that it's a problem of space or anything, just wondering which one you'd think looks best. GrayFox2510 6.30, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * On a side note... What would be best for skills with multiple levels for stats? I have some in the Fighter section done in two ways for the time being. One of them has ★s to represent the upgrades in indiviual lines, and other just say stuff like "increases by 20/40/80/100". Altough I suppose the ★s look better, they certainly make a skill that would only take two lines, grow to like 6~7. Not that it's a problem of space or anything, just wondering which one you'd think looks best. GrayFox2510 6.30, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * On a side note... What would be best for skills with multiple levels for stats? I have some in the Fighter section done in two ways for the time being. One of them has ★s to represent the upgrades in indiviual lines, and other just say stuff like "increases by 20/40/80/100". Altough I suppose the ★s look better, they certainly make a skill that would only take two lines, grow to like 6~7. Not that it's a problem of space or anything, just wondering which one you'd think looks best. GrayFox2510 6.30, September 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm personally against repeating the skills as GrayFox2510 suggested, at least in terms of full skill descriptions. At least half the skills are used by more than one class, and if the fact that some fighters can use magic means you need to repeat all of those magic skills in the fighter's section, then I think it becomes too unmanageable. If each class is going to have a separate list of skills, I think it should be restricted to the skill names, and cross-reference the skill description separately.
 * Check out the current version of Rance Quest:Skills/Sandbox. Currently my plan involves grouping the skills into 5 tables: Red (Physical), Red (Magic), Blue, Yellow, and White. There might be additional sub-divisions that I'll discover as being natural. The advantage of multiple tables is we can have more optimized/specialized columns. Each of the 5 tables will be sortable by which classes has the skill ( O = standard skill, R = characters of this class may randomly have or not have this skill, s = some selected characters of this class have this skill). Default ordering will be consistent relative to the in-game ordering of skills for ease of lookup.-Afker All hail AliceSoft! 09:22, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * That works. I like it that way. Figure it allows for better information on a specific table-- since then you don't have extra columns like Damage Cap for Passive Skills and such like the current page here. GrayFox2510 17.12, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I'm fine with this too. But trying to add the SP table is difficult... Different chars of same class sometimes need diff. amount of SP to learn the same skill, perhaps once again depending on one of the templates chosen for that character.
 * Also, in that case I'll just put the initial skills of a character in the PC page, then add notes as to what special types of skill he/she can learn. We can delete the common skills table. Gahahahahahahaha!!!! 19:37, September 6, 2011 (UTC)

Identify skills
I still haven't gotten Merim Zulle with its お宝鑑定－極 skill, but i noticed Rance Sachiko and Prima have the お宝鑑定 skill, i was just wondering why no one bothered adding this extremely useful skill to the list, it saves you xxxx-loads of cash early game. Tsuki wa mata terasu 04:19, September 4, 2011 (UTC)